So Across the Sea refers to MIB’s home. I am sorry to say this, but I was a bit disappointed in this episode. To start with the mother and brother never give MIB a name. I am sorry but if you live with someone for more than 30 years you need to call them something. I know that we just may have never heard MIB’s name, but come on, we get to hear Jacob’s name multiple times.
Jacob is duped by Witchy Woman to be keeper of the Island
And why does the old lady have to kill the poor young mother girl? I mean come on, she couldn’t just let her go back to her people. I mean they never did anything to the old lady (as far as we saw). At least the writers could have given us a reason for the old lady’s reason for calling the hut people evil. Other than hunting boar, which I guess they needed for food, we got nothing else.
And Jacob dragging his brother across the jungle to the mysterious light… wouldn’t the MIB just refuse to go with him? And who killed all the hut people? Was it Jacob? I mean he doesn’t seem like the killing type. The old lady couldn’t do it… she’s got to be pushing 50 or more. And how did anyone fill in the well in just a day? And how did the old lady pull MIB out of the well in the first place?
And where did the old lady come from? Was she speaking Latin? And why protect the light when it just turns people into smoke monsters? And if Adam and Eve were MIB and the old lady, why did Jack who is a doctor, say they skeltons must have been in the caves for about 30 or 40 years? This was obviously long before that, or at least before the Black Rock got there.
What I liked: Well the real mom, seemed liked a good character who did not deserve to be killed. The old lady came across as some kind of witch or something. Even her hair looked like it was adorned by a spider web.
We also got to see how the frozen donkey wheel was made.
Questions:
But if MIB made the FDW to get off the island, why hasn’t he left the island yet? Can smoke people not use the donkey wheel as long as Jacob is still alive? But why can’t he leave and why did the mother love MIB more but treated him to a whacking against the rock in the cave?
Where did MIB get the idea to mix water with “the light” to get off the island? There was some indication that MIB was a special genius, but still all he told us was that there was magnetism there at the well.
How did the nice woman come out of the water but no one else from the ship was anywhere near her?
How did witch lady make her adopted son’s immortal?
Did the old lady really want MIB to be the keeper of the island and did she really change her mind about Jacob when MIB didn’t agree? And why did she practically force Jacob into servitude to the island?
Overall:
There were way too many questions without answers. The Adam and Eve reveal did not match the facts we knew from before, so I thinking the writers might have called an audible and changed the answer to Adam and Eve at the last minute. The drama wasn’t very interesting I guess because the characters were too unfamiliar to me. I didn’t like any of the characters (except the young mom), because they all did something despicable – even Jacob. I hope Jack isn’t “the candidate” because he doesn’t deserve having to be stuck on the island.
I hope you liked this one more than I did. Hopefully they will tell us more backstory but I have a feeling that since we are at the end of the series we won’t get much. Please tell me I am wrong about this episode if you care to.
Filed under: LOST, LOST Blogs, Season 6 | Tagged: Across the Sea, Entertainment, Jacob, LOST, MIB, Season 6, TV |
TLE's LOST Blog+All About Lost Podcast 
Little MIB should be BIB. Boy in Black.
I was also disappointed this week. This had the same problem as Ab Aeterno (which I can’t believe won the poll). They had long episodes in the past to give the history of characters we knew little about (which is fine). However, in both episodes they spent way too long in answering any questions.
It was nice to verify that Jacob and MIB were twins. We got to find out why MIB said he had issues with his mother. We found out how he became smoke. We got to find out who Adam and Eve were.
Is it possible that their mother could turn to smoke prior to MIB? That would explain how all of MIB’s people could have been wiped out so thoroughly. Maybe when MIB killed her he then became smoke-capable but it wasn’t until getting thrown in the light that he separated from his body.
I think MIB had a lot in common with his mother. Both seem to have no problem killing when they feel like it. Both seem to think all people are evil. The conversation that the mother had with the ‘real’ mother seemed nearly identical to the conversation between MIB and Richard Alpert when they met.
It didn’t seem like their mother aged because she didn’t seem 30 years older in the later scenes.
I think it’s too much to assume that it was just a day in which the well was filled and the people were killed. The same goes for the age of the skeletons when Jack found them. On an island that travels through time, all bets are off
The only reason I can see to not giving MIB a name at this point is that somehow there is significance to his name. Either that or the producers are never planning on giving him a name.
Lee,
Now that I have had time to think about this episode I can better see where the writers were going with this. You might be right about the evil Mom turning to smoke and wiping out the camp, that explains a lot about this episode that I didn’t really understand the first time.
By seeing the smoke come out of the waterfall it made me believe that Smokey was created at that time, but its probably not that at all. Like you say, Smokey may have been the evil Mom “playing” Jacob and Esau to get what she wanted.
I am going to call him Esau because I am bored with MIB for now.
I’m starting to think we’ll never have name for Jacob’s nemesis
JayJay
You are most likely correct. It was frustrating for them to keep avoiding naming him, which made me mad at this episode.
I am going to call him Esau. What do you think, or should I name him something else?
In what year was Across The Sea? I recall Jack saying the clothes on Adam and Eve (NoName & Dead KillerMom) were about 40 or 50 years old. Is this to imply that the LOSTIES are in ancient times plus 40 or 50 on the Island? Now I’m even more confused?
I’m with you TLE, this episode didn’t do anything for me. What we learned could have been accomplished in a few minutes without the need for taking up a whole hour.
One other point. The mystery of The Smoke Monster has been a major issue since the Pilot episode. I’m certainly not satisfied with the “explanation” of throwing the brother into an orange light created the biggest mystery of the entire show.
No you are not confused buzmeg, in Season 1 Jack dated the skeletons to being about 40 – 50 years old based on the deterioration of their clothing. This of course means the skeletons still had on some worn down clothes.
I feel more than a little cheated by Darton’s reveal of Adam and Eve because we know that evil Mom and Esau died long ago and their skeltons clothes should be gone. I guess (and its a big stretch) someone could have put new clothes on the skeltons 40 years ago, but then they would also need to take the pouch of white and black stones that sat there and put them in the clothes.
This episode was like the one with Richard (which I didn’t like either). Although it gives you insight to the character, it feels foreign because it brings up too many questions about that character.
To give an opinion to some of your questions: It said that their mother killed all of the MIB’s people. Could she have possibly been the smoke monster before she died? That explains how the well was filled and all the people dead. Maybe once she was actually dead the island was able to transform someone else into the monster… Which makes me think that the “candidate” is someone who will have to take the MIB’s place.
Obviously Jacob and MIB aren’t “immortal” because Jacob died. The old lady also said she made it impossible for her sons to hurt each other… I guess she meant kill because Jacob sure beat the hell out of MIB.
Hi Cadams92
You are right, I think she was the smoke monster all along. Smokey must have taken this poor woman’s form which now can explain all about what we saw in the episode.
The SmokeWoman was lying when she said she was the only one on the island.
She must have been trying to find her replacement and choose Esau because he was the crafty smart one of the two boys. Once Esau figured out a way to leave the island, the SmokeMum went into action to keep him from leaving.
And as you say, the SmokeMum couldn’t leave until she was killed by someone other than herself and maybe only her replacement could kill her. So next question would be, did she pretend to be Claudia, the nice Mom, to trick Esau into killing her? So is that why she thanked Esau when she was dying?
Is this episode really about the Rules we live by and if we live by Rules that aren’t true, we can end up wasting our lives?
Overall, I enjoyed this episode and think Jacob and MIB deserved an episode exploring their story. For six seasons, it seems like we’ve all been noting that characters on LOST never seem to ask enough questions. This episode is filled with characters asking direct questions to people that have answers and we still don’t appear to be satisfied. While I’m not fan of how the reveals have been presented this season I am content with the answers we’re given.
I believe the crazy mom killed Claudia as a necessary step in her overall plan. Mother needed to find a suitable candidate to guard the island. The children can be easily tricked into believing there is nothing beyond the island. Mother needed to kill Claudia so the lie could be preserved.
This story of the twins paints each in a new light. Jacob comes across as sheltered and naïve with a quick temper and mommy issues. MIB has been mistreated since birth when he wasn’t even given a name (really?). MIB realizes that his whole life has been a lie and he wants to go home where he belongs. I think MIB brings people to the island such as Dharma to help him actualize his plan to harness the water and the light. He comes across as much more sympathetic than evil incarnate as Dogen describes him.
This episode leaves me with a few questions. Why does Jacob have so much faith in humanity? He is told by his mother to distrust men. Thirty years later, his brother confirms the shortfalls of man. After becoming the smoke monster, why does MIB still want to leave the island? It’s been what 2000 years? The island is the only home he’s known. Get over it. We’re told that questions will only lead to more questions so I think the finale will conclude the story but not the discussion.
Seeing the result of entering the cave, I think we’re given a hint of things to come for Desmond. If Desmond can withstand EMF perhaps he can use the power in the cave to rein in Smokey.
Thanks Max,
You explained the same theory I was going with. Actually you explained it better than I did.
I like your idea of MIB bringing people to the island to help him harness the light and water (to escape). I just wonder if you can guess on how he does that. If he can’t leave the island how does he bring them there? Maybe he uses the people that Jacob bring there to recruit his own set of people. He can use his powers of persuasion (aka false statements) to get them to do his bidding.
MIB did not started out as evil incarnate, but now he has become that, so he wants to leave the island to get revenge on people since “They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt. It always ends the same.” That’s my theory anyway. If you destroy all the “outsiders” they can no longer come to his island and mess things up.
How did the dialogue start as latin and change to english all of a sudden?
The Claudia’s stomach was still big after giving birth to Jacob, then after the second baby it was still the same size with the cushions they stuffed in her dress, they could have kept this consistant by making the belly smaller, but left that level of detail out.
I found it interesting how the lady asked “what are you called?”, not ‘what is your name?’, as if she is a different being and not human. Claudia also said “it’s coming” when referring to the babies, as if they were a creature. I don’t think MIB has a name because the woman doesn’t have a name. She even say’s they are not like us. Maybe they’re not like us, because she is pure and they are not, either that or she’s alien.
The old lady was like the others in how she wanted to take a baby from the real mother.
Again we see a loom. We know where Jacob learned how to create one.
How have these other people been on the sland and never come across Jacob and the woman.
When the lady took the two sons to see the Light, it reminded me of scripture that sais ligh is knowledge. Is this what Widmore is trying to find on the island? But now Jacob or his candidates must protect it?
MIB can see the dead, but not Jacob. It’s obivously a gift given to some.
Jacob’s mom told him something much worse will happen if you go down into the light. How did MIB become smoke and is able to take his original form when his body was found by Jacob and taken away? I guess it’s the same way he was able to become Locke. I’m still confused how MIB became UnLocke on Hydra island. How did smokey ever get over to the Hydra to take Locke’s form. And what’s up with Christian. Where is Christians body? The big question is: Is the MiB his real brother as smoke, or only taken on his form. MiB’s body was found dead. The smoke could have been a being made dormant in the light, since a body went in, it was able to escape. Is this the evil they are talking about that would bring hell?
Is the light inside smokey? as the smoke escaped, the light went out in the cave. But the frozen donkey wheel had some light left when Ben pushed it. Is this the light that Locke said was the eye of the island?
Why is Claudia stuck on the island, I thought it was only for bad people, Like Michael said he couldn’t escape. But we don’t know if Claudia is good or bad, but all things point to her being good. So why is she stuck on the island.
Did the witch woman kill MiB in the well chamber, or just knock him out. He would have suffered the same death as the Doctor that had the medicine for isabella and the same way Kelvin Inman died.
It’s obvious she has manipulated them since they were born. Giving knowledge that only she wants them to have. I’m sure everything that comes to the island, she makes the excuse as if it’s from her, as if she is the island, and she brings what ever she wants.
The dark boy found the game and made up it’s rules, he even said to Jacob that someday you can make up your own game and set you own rules. The island is a magic box, what ever rules you want to create they manifest so. They old lady tells them, they can’t kill each other. She didn’t do anything special, apart from touching them. That’s why I think magic is involved.
How is the candidate able to drink the wine now, the bottle is broken. Now there’s no more wine. That’s how the witch and Jacob were able to become the smae.
How could a single woman kill all those people? I think Jacob and her teamed up and did it together. That’s the moment MIB bacame evil, and very similar to Anakin becoming bad.
The lady knows she’s going to die when Jacob hears the storm coming and asks Jacob to fetch some firewood. She tells him to becareful as if this was her last goodbye.
Did the Lady favour BiB because she knew he was going to be bad. She seemed to know future events. Knowing the BiB was going to turn bad, therefore she tried nurturing as much as good as she could to see if she could change him. He knew he would betray his mother by finding and playing the game, but tried to hide it from her. He’s more of a free spirit, curious and wanting to look for answers, where Jacob excepts the answers without question. It’s just like the initial conversation when the old lady told Claudia that questions will lead to more questions. Are the writers trying to tell us something. As if they will never answer every question.
Here are some of my big questions I want answers to:
Who built Tawaret?
Still want to know how Jacob get’s off the island, to touch Jack and the other oceanic 6.
My crackpot theory of the week is that, maybe Widmore needs to trap Smokey/Locke to extract the light inside smokey. He needs to extract it with Electromagnetism, and Desmond is the only one who can trap him. Once Widmore has the light, he will be able to harness the almost “limitless energy” to do anything. Possibly change the past.
JayJay
You and I agree that this episode was not handled very well from a production standpoint. Claudia’s pillow stomach looked like pillows even after she gave birth. The light was a bit cheesy and could have been revealed in a different but better way. They could have gotten close to it and had to “shield” their eyes, then we could have imagined it more than seeing it.
Good catch on SmokeMum’s lack of giving things names. If you were a monster that hated humans, you wouldn’t want to name them either.
Yes. How did she hide the ancient others from the kids for 13 years? Roseau was able to hide from the modern Others for that long, but it was just her.
If you get a chance, you might want to read my post on Tenerife island that I did after the Ab Aeterno episode. https://tle1lost.wordpress.com/2010/03/26/the-island-of-tenerife-and-lost/ . In that it talks about how the Gaunches were found on the island living in caves by the Romans in AD 50. The Romans spoke Latin and probably taught the indigenous people that language.
I will try and get to the rest of your questions on the podcast.
“How did the dialogue start as latin and change to english all of a sudden?”
Well, that’s one thing I can actually answer. It’s a cinematographic device. They started speaking Latin to show us that they were Latin speakers and switched to English because it was easier than making the actors do the whole episode in Latin and force people to watch subtitles.
The way it was done suggests that though we are hearing English, they’re still speaking Latin.
As far as this episode went, I really liked it. I like that a lot of details are lost in the past as a kind of origin myth. The mom-guardian probably doesn’t know any more than she said in the episode itself. That’s the beauty of the whole series, isn’t it? Some mysteries are never solved. Some of them, you peel back a few layers and find more layers underneath.
Some stuff just is. And doesn’t the whole guardian succession and the information that goes along with it resemble a game of Telephone (or Chinese Whispers)? Every guardian tells what they were told and maybe some things they’ve conjectured along the way but they’re trapped by the Island too and really don’t know as much as they think they do.
So I think what we are seeing in this episode happened early in the first century, maybe just around or after the time of Christ. Remember what Locke said about backgammon to Walt in the first season? It turns out the game the boys are playing is related to backgammon. It’s called Senet. This wikipedia article really has some direct tie-ins to Lost. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senet
Excerpt: Senet boards were often placed in the grave alongside other useful objects for the dangerous journey through the afterlife and the game is referred to in Chapter XVII of the Book of the Dead.
Did Jacob get his long life after drinking the cup of wine from SmokeMum? Remember that Richard drank wine when he made a “live forever” deal with Jacob on the beach.
Did the old woman warn Jacob not to go down into the light cave, because she went into the light cave and became Smokey? Is Smokey trying to protect the light cave from intruders and kills anyone who enters there and then takes their human likeness?
If Jacob believes he is supposed to guard the light, why did he leave the island to recruit Jack, Kate, Hurley etc.? And how did he leave the island? If he used the donkey wheel, who rebuilt it after the well was covered over by dirt?
Wow! I am so surprised at all the animosity towards this episode – not just here, but so many boards and forums. I LOVED this episode and I learned so much from it – not the least being that the writers are right not to give all the answers the fans are seeking, because answers only seem to alienate the (former?) Lost fandom who had imagined other stories than the one they were telling.
I can’t begin to address all the things I’ve heard or seen, but I have a few comments that maybe might put the episode into another perspective.
– The second baby was given a name – “Brother” – like in “see you in another lifetime, Brotha” or Brother Desmond. I never ever called my brother “Brother” as if it were his name. I did, however, call my mother Mother (well, actually Mom, but that is the same think to all but the most picky, isn’t it?)
– The Island is outside of time and space. We know that when Widmore and Locke met up in Tunisia, it was 3 days since their last meeting to Locke, but to Widmore it was about 40 – 50 years. Additionally, we do not know how long “Mother” and sons lived before Mother and brother’s bodies died.
I do not think that mother and brother died, any more than Jacob did when Ben stabbed him. In the episode where Juliet and Kate were handcuffed together, we saw 3 separate smokies come after them when Juliet shut off the fence to let her and Kate to safety. They joined into one and then when Juliet put on the sonic barrier again, they howled in 3 distinct voices and separated back into 3 entities.
– Fans have been wondering if there is a force on the island that Jacob and MIB (or Adam or Essau or Brother) answer to. Now we know that there at least was a higher force, and in a place where the dead and the living coexist, the mother is probably still Mother.
– We saw Mother murder Claudia. She says it was to protect the island and the source of all creation – or energy. Sounds like Ben and the “good guys”. Sounds like Richard and his acknowledgement of what they must guard. Dogan too saw themselves as the good guys as they murdered to protect this most sacred of all sources.
Is it the light of the holy covenant in the arc that Moses carried in the desert for 40 years? Is it the well of all souls, or of energy or of creation and manifestation of All that Is? They believe they are charged with an important task that will demand all they have to give and more. No one seems to want the role (well, except John Locke – the gullible, tragic man seeking to be someone important.). It is a mitzvah. An honor that comes at a great personal price. It is born of a commitment made when the boy reaches adolescence or manhood – normally around 13 years old, depending on customs. It is often sealed with a blessing over wine and the sharing of the wine – (this is my blood that you drink).
I agree that Mother had the power of Smokey. She gave that power to Jacob to be a defense system. Did brother get the power or was he a victim of Smokey? Don’t know .. yet. Don’t really need to. For sure, Brother can call upon Jacob or Mother in the form of Smokey to help protect the Island, the light of all creation.
I think the light coming from the whole in the rock was the light of portals of land. No-one ever really left the island, I don’t think, but there are “thinnies” as Stephen King would say, where the veil between places and times was very thin and spirits could pass between. That is how spirits that dies off island got onto the island, I think. I think that Mittleloss “not quite in Portland” had a woods that was a place the world and the island connected in time space. Perhaps that is the green light. The warm yellow light (from the wheel, not the source way under the island) was the sun of the desert of Tunesia. Maybe blue light came from the ocean as the Island moved around space time.
Brother learned his mother may have been crazy but she was correct about the evilness of Claudia’s people – of all “others” not of the island. However the mother did start the loop of the matriarch – single mother – giving birth and the baby (ies) being stolen. Widmore told Ben to kill single mother Danielle and take Alex. Was this an attempt to control the lineage? Danielle tried it with Aaron, but the losties rescues him. How many other times has this happened? Ilana apparantly was raised by Jacob as a daughter, but not his blood daughter,
They called mother crazy, but I think crazy was used to mean witch, or wiccan. One who is one with the earth, with the island. One who is in harmony and balance of mind body and spirit. One who knew how to use herbs and who did not waste food in refrigerators. One who knew that everyone has their own energy and creates their own world and life and all the parallel worlds they want to pursue the different results of different choices.
However the Mother is older (oh, I resent her being put down as an old woman just as much as I resent her being put down for wiccan ways.). Going by different descriptions of wiccan and pagan and shaman, was Sun a witch because of her garden and knowledge of herbal medicine – that often saved lives when medical science destroyed them. Was John Locke a warlocke, for his use of sweatlodges and natural drugs to give him journeys into his inner light?
Did we call Claire a witch when she dabbled in astrology and visited psychics, or did we wait until she had her baby stolen (not by Kate, but the force that controlled her mind into leaving Aaron behind and then changing Claire’s memories? Did we need to wait for insanity or soul journeys or Sun to grow old in her garden before dismissing any goodness in these characters?
And even on this board “mother” is called the old woman as if to explain that she must be evil. Tell me, if Claudia had met a pregnant “Mother” on the island and helped her give birth, what would we call her if she murdered the older woman to protect the babies and /or the island? Is youth and beauty still how we determine goodness? And are age and beauty bound together in any combination?
We learned how many false judgements, guidelines and myths came to be in this episode. We heard lines are characters have spoken for the past 5 1/2 years – and we believed what we were told. Now we see the context of the origin of these traditions and rituals in their proper context. How things do get changed – like the child’s game of postman.
I promised I wouldn’t go on and on, and again I have failed. It is a life challenge to learn to summarize in short easy to understand ways.
But does any of this make any sense to any of you?
And totally off subject – my 2 tickets for the Darlton live conference in theaters next Thursday arrived in the mail today. I can’t wait! Then again, I wish I could start this journey all over again.
peace, Lucy
Hi Lucy
Thanks for the great comments as always.
I think what you are saying does make sense. One interesting thing about the woman was she didn’t seem to age even though her sons grew 30 years older.
I am still struggling with the clothes on the skeletons when Jack found them in 2004. I guess the only explanation is that things and people don’t deteriorate on the island (usually). There are some exceptions like Ben and Jack both needing surgeries.
Okay back to your comment.
1. Yes, the Lost community seems split on this episode. Some loved it and some hated it. I can only speak for myself this episode raised so many questions for me I got frustrated knowing that we are near the end of the show and we are running out of time. However this episode does exactly what most episodes of Lost do, it makes us go out and share our comments with each other!
2. Agree that Smokey Jacob and Brother all want to protect the island but in different ways. In my insane theory, Smokey guards the entrance to the underworld, Jacob is guarding the island because its his home, and Brother wants all those who keep coming to corrupt the island to stop coming. But Brother also wants to leave the island, or so he keeps saying. He wants to go Across the Sea to his home and Jacob and the candidates are stopping him.
3. I think the Woman was good at one time, but when Smokey took her form she became a bit like Yemmi on the island. Half Yemmi and Half Smokie.
4. It’s interesting you mention “thinnies”. Fringe touched on something similar with its concept of our cells needing to separate to reach the alternate universe, but when they do they end up lacking “cohesion” and the object or person becomes fragile to the point of breaking apart.
5. I like your mention of the arc of the convenant. In Raiders of the Lost Ark the arc had this “unspeakable power that could level mountains”. In the Bible the ark contained objects from the exodus and the time that God was together with his people which included: the two stone tablets which listed the 10 commandments, the manna (bread of life), and the staff (shepherds hook) that Aaron carried with him to Pharoh. The staff later buds like a tree branch. The ark itself wasn’t powerful per se, but anyone who treated the ark with a lack of holiness and respect became sick or died.
6. I thought the Woman might have been a witch because she was preparing the herbs for something. Did she put them in the wine and then say something over them like a spell or incantation? I am not sure, but I plan to read Lostpedia and see what other viewers thought.
That’s all for now, this should be an interesting podcast. doug
Late to the party, as I had to watch this episode a couple of times to take it all.
When Mother uttered the line about questions begetting more questions, I knew we were in for a doozy of an episode. And the episode definitely raised more questions even while answering some. But given that, I want to focus on a main theme that I gleaned from the episode from a character standpoint.
I think MIB’s mission deserves SYMPATHY. He was a boy stolen from his mother, who was murdered, deceived about his origins, and longed to live in “reality” once that deception was revealed. MIB was a VICTIM. Now, granted, the path he took to achieve his goals took some immoral turns, but his overall goal is one that I am considering rooting for, now. I think that;s why they waited so long to reveal this information, the writers wanted us to believe MIB as “evil incarnate” when it turns out he is just like everyone else and has qualities that we can agree with.
And for that matter, Jacob reveals himself not to be an agent of good, but a highly falwed individual who believes strongly in his mission.
And this, I think brings into full relief the fact that Lost has never been about “Good” and “Evil” to begin with. It’s all about points of view, choices, consequences, and shades of grey. Life is fragile and choices are not always clear and just motives are not always enough to justify all our actions.
I think it is a bold move to bring this all to the forefront and make us question who we are rooting for and why, because we are now left to question and judge ourselves in the process. And I, for one, am glad that the story is not a Black Hat/White Hat Cowboy drama but much more complex. I am keenly interested in how they choose to resolve the show now and am going to try to avoid getting mired in “details” anymore.